Sunday, March 15, 2009

Homosexuality is a Sin. Honest - It Says So In A Very Old Book

I got involved in what passed for a discussion on a video entitled “Homosexuality is a Sin” by TheWoodsofJordan. I like this fellow’s name, by the way; it’s a peaceful sounding name. Not so “inyourface” as some Christian YouTube user names can be. He also seems like a peaceful individual, so I don’t want to trash him really. However, what happened in this discussion (or lack thereof) just calls out for me to write about it.

His video starts like this:

“I want to talk about a controversial issue in the Christian community and the world really, and that is homosexuality, and homosexuality is a sin. Now, many people out there are going to be quick to jump on this video and say, ‘You’re a bigot, you’re a racist, you’re homophobic,’ and it has nothing to do with that. God strictly says in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin and, in fact, it’s actually an abomination. If you go to Leviticus, chapter 18, and in verse 22, it says ‘You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.’ Clearly stated. If you just turn over a few pages in your Bible ‘til Leviticus, chapter 20, and read verse 13, it says, ‘If a man,’ and remember this is back in the Old Testament days when people were under the law and remember, we are no longer under the law. We are under the grace of Jesus Christ because he died for our sins. So, no longer are people treated this way, but nonetheless, it is still a sin. Leviticus 20:13 says, ‘If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.’ So that was back in the Old Testament under the law when God was a lot more strict and his wrath really showed upon people. Not to say that God still isn’t strict and God doesn’t pour out judgment upon people, because he does, but God decided that since no one could follow all of these laws and commandments and stuff, that He would have to send the ultimate sacrifice, which was Jesus Christ, to die for all of our sins.”

He then goes into a couple of verses in the New Testament, but I won’t bore you with those. I think you’ve got the general idea that the Bible claims that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin. So, here’s my comment posted on his video:

“Before you can convince anyone of anything by quoting from the bible, you're going to have to do 2 things:

1. Prove that God exists.
2. Prove that the bible is the word of God.

Until you can prove those two things, then your quotations are meaningless.”

Within a couple of minutes, I get a response, not from TheWoodsofJordan, but someone with the oxymoronic name of VersatileMind4Christ, who says:

“LOL You're on the wrong video then. Off topic.
Before you comment on this video. You must realize this video is targeted to people who believe in the Bible, people in the Christian community OR ANYONE who is curious to learn about the Bible.
The purpose of this video is to provide explanations of the topic of homosexuality in context to the doctrine of the Bible.
In the beginning of the video he CLEARLY says "Christian Community" and the world. LOL”

My mind said “Huh? What did she (VersatileMind) hear that I missed?” So I listened to the beginning again. He said exactly what I’ve quoted above and there is no way I can interpret that to mean his target audience was only the Christian community or anyone curious about the Bible. Besides, I thought my comment did fall within curiosity about the Bible. So I responded with:

“He says he wants to talk about a controversial issue in the Christian community and the world. How does that leave me out?”

Oxymoronic counters with:

“Exactly. If part of his target market or demographic is the Christian community. why would he have to PROVE God's existence?
Now on the "world" aspect, this video provides an explanation on homosexuality in the Bible.
It is not to prove God, it is a simple discussion. You commented a bit rude and off topic.
If you wanted a video to discuss God's existence then you need to go to a video from a youtuber on that subject.”

Well, to make this easier, here is the rest of the conversation:

Why is that? If someone is going to call people I care about sinners and abominations, I have the right to comment.

Yes you do have a right to voice your opinion. It is the manner you did it that was a bit disrespectful distracted from the point of the video.
Do you understand what an abomination is?
This is always misunderstood.

Please don't speak down to me. I am not stupid. Nor am I disrespectful. In my opinion, all of your "lol's" are disrespectful.

Okay. Sorry for the "lols" I acknowledge that.
On such a touchy subject people are quick to show hate towards someone simply sharing their views.
The same freedom you have to voice your opinion to others, so does he to express that homosexuality is a sin.

"people are quick to show hate"

Are you referring to yourself or to me with this statement? I am not feeling any hatred, so if you are referring to me, you need to stop assuming.
I agree that people have freedom to voice their opinions, but that doesn't mean that others don't have the right to voice their opposition to those opinions. That is all I'm doing. I'm not hating anyone.

You're MISSING the complete purpose of this conversation. Please read my comments again.
IF you're going voice opposition, do it ON TOPIC and not rude.

Again, I'm not being rude. Why is it off topic to ask someone to prove that the source of their opinions is legit? In my mind, that is totally on topic. You may not like it, but it is on topic.

Again...If you wanted a video to discuss God's existence then you need to go to a video from a youtuber on that subject.
Thanks for keeping this respectful. I'm done here.

I'm sorry that you feel you're done here. I will add, however, that I was not looking for any particular subject. I simply came upon this video and watched it. I then questioned the validity of this user's sources. He's making the claims. I would like some proof of his claims.

You are asking us to prove God. This video isn't about proving God. It's about how homosexuality is a sin. If you are going to discuss something, make sure it relates to the video at least.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how my questions are not related to the video. Your contention is that homosexuality is a sin and you're providing God and the bible as the sources of your opinions. I'm asking you to provide proof that your sources are legit. If these sources cannot be proven as legit, then why should I believe that homosexuality is a sin? I'm not trying to be argumentative for argument's sake. I'm trying to understand the legitimacy of your sources.

Thank you Jordan. My point exactly! LOL
This video isn't about proving God. It's not that difficult to understand.

Just the typically argument. I am really surprised, not as much hatred as I thought.

Also "people" refers to others in general. If I wanted to say YOU directly, I would have.
So I wasn't assuming and I wasn't talking about you directly.

But you were responding directly to me, so why all of a sudden refer to people in general?

Jordan, this is your wording in the description box:

This video is talking about homosexuality and how it is a sin in God's eyes. I do not hate homosexuals, but they need to recognize that what they are doing is a sin, and that they were not born this way but rather chose to be this way.

So I'm asking - why should homosexuals recognize what you're claiming if you will not back up your claims? Why did you make the video and the above statements if you refuse to discuss it? Back up your claims.


This is somewhat of a long blog entry, but in case anyone is reading this, I wanted you to see the weirdness of the comments. So far, TheWoodsofJordan has not acknowledged by questions further. What I don’t understand is why don’t they get it? Why don’t they see that asking for proof of the legitimacy of the sources used is quite on topic? I know that they can’t provide the proof, but asking for it is still on topic. I guess they expect that homosexuals are just supposed to watch this video and say, “Yep, you’re right. I’ve been living a sinful life. I’m giving it all up because that 2000-year-old book that you said is the word of God says so. Good enough for me.”

Pardon me for using my brain to think and question! Is that a sin as well? I wonder sometimes because using their brains doesn’t seem to be something that these extra-religious people do.


Anonymous said...

No, they don't get it.

After all, if God said it, then it must be OK for them to repeat it.

They don't get that it's immoral to attack a minority group on the basis of who and what they are. One would think that the likes of VersatileLOL would understand that, unless her channel icon is of the wrong pigmentation.

(She apparently does not know that the frequent use of "lol" makes ones IQ appear to be in the single digits.)

Religious bigots simply do not understand that to claim that the Bible is the Word of God is a circular fallacy.

Frankly, I think that this God fella should be banned from YouTube on the basis of his incessant hate speech. It's not just homosexuals, he apparently thought that the inebriated are also abominations.

Hic "Him"!

Oriented x4 said...

Thanks for the great comments. I must admit that VersatileLOL is a better name for her than the one she gave herself. Her icon is the correct pigmentation because she does her own videos too. I wouldn't recommend them to you though.

I understand that religious bigots don't understand that the Bible is the Word of God is circular, but I still don't understand why they couldn't seem to get that I was not off topic in asking for proof of the legitimacy of said Bible. But, as you say, single digit IQs.

Did you catch the "doing secular things on the internet too much" is also an abomination? You have to love that. Apparently, my job is an abomination. And I didn't even know that computers and the internet were mentioned in the Bible. Wow, learn something new every day!

Hic Him!!

Anonymous said...

They claim that it is off-topic because they cannot answer the question. Besides, religious indoctrination is antithetical to logical thought processes, so they cannot even see that the question is reasonable.

They have been taught to accept, on blind faith, something for which there is no evidence and no logical argument, so they think that all others ought to believe it too.

Doing secular things on the internet is an abomination? The word "abomination" is like "sin" - it is meaningless.

Besides, I have always fancied doing something that is an abomination. So much more fun than being a fear-riddled, delusional, goody-two-shoes!

Ooooooo goody, I'll drink to that!